brainygamer
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Reply with quote | #1 |
Post your thoughts on Mission 6 here.
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jordan_magnuson
Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 27
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Reply with quote | #2 |
For the most part, I did not enjoy this level. I don't really like the feeling of being lost in a maze, excepting the possibility of a social adventure created by a corn maze or something similar, and this level was definitely (and intentionally) a maze. I did get lost more than in previous levels, but the main thing that bothered me, I think, is the fact that the designers apparently intended for me to get lost--I didn't feel nearly like such a lab rat in level 5.5, for instance, even though that level did provide a decent amount of spacial complexity, and some getting lost.
Anyway, this was the first level that I played on Hard all the way through (as I am now caught up with everyone), and for the most part that was fine... The only real difference from Normal difficulty was the number of guards, and I didn't mind the added scheming that getting around more guards entailed -- until I became so frustrated towards the end of the level that the guards became physical obstacles to my crazed running around, trying to find spaces I had not yet explored (at one point point I had four guards chasing me, through the narrow corridors of the upper levels, and I didn't care a whit).
My total time for completing the level was just under an hour, but with reloading it must have been twice that long, at least (felt like forever and a day). I definitely prefer playing without lots of reloading, as I've noted in other threads, but my level of frustration with this level led to frequent suicide runs (as above), and the like, for the sake of orientating myself, etc. (i.e. saving time).
I did like using the rope arrow to get into the mansion though... does that qualify as a highlight?
Anyway, I'm interested to read what others thought.
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Jordan Magnuson
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Fae
Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 41
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Reply with quote | #3 |
I enjoyed it. 
The beginning was a bit rocky for me. I kept getting noticed, and would then run back to the rope arrow or nearby ladder, get out of sight of the guard, wait for them to stop searching, and blackjack them as they turned around to leave. After a while, repeating this became a bit absurd, but it remained a very reliable and simple way to take out alerted guards without expending precious flash bombs. (If you're not playing on Expert or you don't mind violating the spirit of Garrett's don't-kill-anyone clause, you can also lead guards into traps for easy kills.)
Once I moved on to the second floor and the garden, areas without so much tile, things became easier. I wasn't noticed again until the last areas of the level. I also found an awesome surreal secret area that I had no idea existed; the only loot there was a couple coins that someone had left in the couch, but there were tons of arrows and other goodies, and it's well worth seeing just for the architecture. (The entrance is in front of the cathedral in the garden; also, according to the internet, this area only exists in Thief Gold.)
After exploring everywhere else, I turned my attention to the "screw you, thieves!" upper floors, that ridiculous place with tile and lights everywhere. I had around 20 water arrows and over a dozen moss arrows by this point, and I expended every last one of them here, as well as two out of my seven flash bombs. My preferred strategy for this area in times past has been to run in, grab the sword, and run out, so I'm very happy that I managed to knock out all the guards this time, regardless of how many items I had to use to do it.
I love the architecture throughout this level, and I don't mind it being confusing to navigate. Sure, it took a while to explore (I spent over 2 hours here, almost as long as it took me to complete the main objective of Thieves' Guild, even though this place has fewer than half as many guards, and I still missed a good ~500 loot), but it was fun. Loot objectives are quite generous here, so you don't have to explore everywhere, and there's almost no loot in the areas that are hardest to navigate anyway. Constantine's Crazy Castle just wouldn't be the same if it made sense.
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 197
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Reply with quote | #4 |
What a tonal change: the previous levels were mostly serious, and this one is gleefully insane. Upside-down Escher staircases, optical illusions, a room in the middle of outer space, laughing in the distance... this is one crazy world we've just stepped into. Personally, I can't get enough of it. I hope this level of energy is retained in the rest of the game.
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Kloreep
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 252
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Reply with quote | #5 |
I agree with Moriarty, I think this is my favorite level so far. "Gleefully insane" is an excellent description. Which continues the trend of my opinions on a second playthrough not mirroring my recollections from several years back; I think I was more easily frustrated then.
I didn't have the experience of getting lost, and that certainly helped me like this level as much as I did. The final stretch going to the Sword was a bit lacking in landmarks, but once I figured out that I wanted to stick to the planted back-paths, it didn't take too long to find my way up to the top via those routes.
And the secret area is indeed awesome, so much so that I might actually recommend returning to see it, at least if you still have a save with easy access to the garden. Constantine's "sanctum," as he calls it in a document left on his desk, is absolutely awesome. It's a real good thing he doesn't seem to be a pet-owning kind of person. Of course, the long-triggered mouse trap gave me a good shudder. If you want more specific directions to the area:
The whole area is accessible in the garden, near the bridge over to a dead end room with an unopenable door. Out by the bridge, there's a hidden switch that will open the grate in the water, allowing you to continue via the stream.
And if you want to know what the heck we're raving about:
Constantine's Sanctum is just a living room & bedroom, but it is BIG. Garrett & the guards are the size of mice. When I mentioned that document on Constantine's desk, I omitted that you have to use a couple rope arrows to climb up his chair onto it.  And the sprung mouse trap lying on the floor has the skeleton & sword of a guard who got caught in it.
Anyhow, I'd recommend paying it a visit. Just make sure to use the quicksave - those rope arrows are apparently very slippery. |
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 197
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Kloreep
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 252
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Quote: Originally Posted by MoriartyL
I don't think I saw this "sanctum" of which you speak. I'm pretty sure I pulled the switch on the bottom floor, but I couldn't tell what it had activated. You're talking about the switch on the statue next to the room with the treasure, right?
Yep. If we're talking about the same area, it should have opened a grate that was blocking passage through the water in one direction.
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jordan_magnuson
Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 27
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Looking back at this level, and reading others' responses, I think I was a bit too impatient with it. I do quite like the architecture, and the "energy" here.
The thing that really aggravated me, I think, is that I was able to find the sword's "display case" in a decent amount of time, but it took me forever to get to the upper levels in order to grab it. The frustrating part is that I was able to shoot a rope arrow from the bottom level and climb to such a place that, for the life of me, I thought should have been able to jump and get the sword, but the game just would allow it, as far as I could tell. Did anyone else have this experience?
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oozo
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 25
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Somehow, I seem to experience things differently from a lot of people once again.
Ok, I was playing on "Normal" (still trying to catch up with the faster players), but even so, I had a blast. And I pretty much rushed through the whole level, never ever having much of a problem in finding my way.
Didn't do much exploring, because at one point, I had found 666 of loot, and I though the satanic number was just too fitting not to leave at that point (even though buying an arsenal for the level after it is a bit difficult now). So, I didn't find the room everybody is raving about, might actually go back and check it out...
Strangely, that was the last level I played back in the day - I can't even remember why I never made it past it, guess I thought it to be frustrating or something. Exactly this it wasn't this time around, though. Just going up, up, up, and since I knew who my enemies/allies were, I thought sticking to the flowery paths might be a good idea. Turns out it was.
And, no, Jordan, I actually got to the sword via two rope-arrows. It worked, and it worked even great, I was not even noticed by the guards just on the other side of the hall. (I only knocked out 5 guards in the whole level and didn't kill anybody, actually).
I have to admit that this was a truly satisfying moment, one of those where I felt really thieve-like. Professional. Cunning, even.
So I think it's even stranger that it didn't work for you. Did you try 2 ropes instead of just one? Are you playing Gold as well? Or is it a difficulty level-thing? (If so, that would be about the stupidest decision they could have taken).
And of course, I'm all in for the Escherness, and I thought it to be pretty bizarre to have just regular guards in such screwed up spaces...
I actually think it's almost a bit of a pity that the briefing-video already warned you about the level being "a maze" and "a madhouse"; in T:3, what made the Cradle such a horrendous thing was after all that you saw it less coming.
As one last remark, I can see how I experience the whole setting and storyline in a different way now that I am familiar with the later games. Back in the day, I remembered the atmosphere as being way darker, even, well satanic - meaning that I used to think of it as something based much more on not very highly original medieval/Christian horror-tropes; the devil etc.
Guess that might have been one reason for never having finished the game - I thought I could imagine what was coming anyway. Now that I know better, though, I'm really looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.
The videos really are starting to contribute to the immersion from this point on, I think.
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 197
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